The only thing I will add to this is a confirmation that MOStlyCE was Chad's baby. I was there when it happened (and indeed, helped with testing and the name!). If he had not put in a ton of time on his own to get that ported, it wd not be -- and if he had not continued to champion it's development, it wd not be what it is today.

One of the foundations of open source has been credit where credit is due. When that erodes, it nullifies one of the few direct compensations to project participants and thereby undercuts part of the motivation for being a contributor. I hate to see this happen.

Well I am disappointed to see they have taken over my project on mambo-code without even so much as an email to me.  I have no problem with them forking it and taking it in their own direction.  After all that is the power and flexibility that makes open source so great.  However, they should at least rename it and notify users of the change.  Folks will be very confused when they compare the mambo-code site with the official project sites on SourceForge, Freshmeat, Ohloh, and Brilaps.  I had posted notice a while back to notify our users letting them know that version 3.0.5 would be the last for Mambo.  I see nothing wrong with that... they should be aware of the change in order to plan for the future of their sites.  When people see newer versions of MOStlyCE they will update without understanding they are not meant to be used with Mambo.  A real pain and poor experience for everyone.  MOStlyCE is far from dead... in fact is has already seen several updates for MiaCMS beyond what is available for Mambo.  I am continuing development and in fact I am working on a new version as I type this.

Just another sad example of the political crap we all left behind.

I wish to correct a couple of things...
Firstly, at the time I wrote the post Cem complains about, Adi had stepped down from the programming team and taken up the role of moderator of the Indonesian forum, after writing to say he would be back later to work on development. His post, and Neil's were the first anyone knew that their situations had changed.

Secondly, commit rights bear little relationship to the number of active developers on a project. Even under Chad's leadership there were developers who did not have commit rights but who nevertheless contributed code. Since Mambo removed the requirement for joining the team new developers have been contributing code. Code contributions may be made by anyone at all, and after a review they may be committed by one of the team who does have commit rights.  All developers were asked to register their names on the forge project if they were happy to have them known. Due to the continued flack coming from some quarters, several have said they prefer to just get on with work without setting themselves up as targets. Who can blame them?

Finally, I am really saddened to read the comments about MOStlyCE. Nobody has taken credit away from Chad and an email WAS sent as I understand it. The editor was not arbitrarily taken over. It was developed for Mambo by a core Mambo developer, and offered as part of Mambo, and was even in the Mambo project and not its own project until not long before the MIA fork. The files have the Mambo copyright in them and appear to have had this for a long time.  Even Chad's post announcing that he, presumably as project leader, had moved it to its own project on the forge, he said "we" as in "team Mambo" gave it its new home. At least, that is how many in the team understood it to be at the time.
MOStlyCE was never, to my knowledge, a stand-alone editor outside of Mambo. It has been a very much appreciated part of Mambo since Chad wrote it.

If we got things wrong and MOStlyCE was always a 3rd party extension that was not part of the core, then this should have perhaps been made clear from the outset. However, when the project leader makes an announcement like this one http://forum.mamboserver.com/showthread.php?t=81483 and in the official announcement says "Team Mambo" has released it as part of the core, then I don't think Mambo should be accused of forking the editor or of confusing users.

Before anyone accuses me of lying again, I wish to clarify my comment above. It contains a typo and I don't intend to edit the post to correct it. I said "Even Chad's post announcing that he, presumably as project leader, had moved it to its own project on the forge, he said "we" as in "team Mambo" gave it its new home."
It should read: "Even Cem's post announcing that he, presumably as de facto project leader, had moved it to its own project on the forge, he said "we" as in "team Mambo" gave it its new home."

"de facto" is added for extra clarity, since so many here seem to spend as much time trying to twist my words as they do writing code

You mean SPIN?

Why not? You seem perfectly adept at editing posts. Make that completely rewriting posts to hide the truth after you don't get the response you would have liked.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

By the way, I thought you were supposed to be moving to another FOSS project. You told me you were quitting Mambo. What happened? Oh yea, coup d'état complete. I should have known your feigned anger was a ruse.

Enjoy your spin zone here. It'll be quite fun un-spinning your yarns to reveal the real truth.

LOL,

Will Mambo never learn?  Reading the above, I guess not!

Good to see another fork out there!  Even after all these years Mambo lives in on!  Testament itself to the quality of the software no matter what disguise it wears.

- Robert Castley

That's easy:

1. Andphe

Last edited by alwarren (2008-10-02 16:42:14)

Well, actually, none. They don't call them core developers anymore. When Lynne Pope and Nic Steenhout resigned from the core team, there was a 5hr Skype chat where the board was threatening to resign en masse effectively shutting down the entire project. It later became apparent that both Lynne and Nic, after having resigned from the core team, were intent on gaining full control of the project. The end result of that Skype chat was they created a new team - Development with Nic as Team Leader then they renamed the Core Team as Programming Team. So now you have Lynne (Elpie) as President of the Board and Nic (Vavroom) in charge of development. Lynne had told me several times that she and Nic were leavign the project. Although, in retrospect, my guess is that was all an act.

So the answer is they have, to my knowledge, only one developer working on the project - Andphe. Although Nic and Lynne will probably claim they're also developers even though neither have any programming skills.

If you'd like to see how it all went down, with the Board discussing shutting down Mambo and how the new team structure evolved, drop me an email and I'll send you a transcript.

Lynne joined the Core Team to help with html/css/validation. Nic joined to help with html/css/accessability. Nic and Lynne both wrote some html/css and Lynne worked on copyright blocks. Neither contributed any php logic/design. I wouldn't consider them developers.

Andphe wrote the language manager.

Last edited by alwarren (2008-10-02 17:59:27)

Lynne had nothing to do with that...it was all me. Yes, I'm on the moderation team, as I am here as well; (I guess some of you don't like that...but oh well) and my obligations are to the board I happen to be working on at the time. If you knew me, you would know that I am not one to lock threads or delete posts without just cause. This particular user had been leaving a trail of useless one-liner posts and was just trying to get his signature links published. After dealing with all the low life spammers and then having to wade through the recent tirades, I just may have had a touch of the "short fuse" syndrome. Again, it has nothing to do with Lynne, so please clear the incident from the mud cache.

I'm sorry Chad, but I fail to see how anyone could have thought MOStlyCE was a 3rd party extension. You, as a core team member, removed TinyMCE from the 4.6 SVN at the beginning of January 2006. Then added the MOStlyCE component and mambot, and added the entries to SQL a couple of weeks later. All in the core. MOStlyCE did not exist as a separate project within the Mambo forge until it was removed and set up in April, by another core team leader, without discussion with the project leader or any of the team. From the time the team announced the 4.6 sneak peak and how "they" were providing a new editor, till now, the team has been testing and providing support for the editor. It has never, to my knowledge, been treated as a 3PD extension and users simply referred to the developer for support. As to the license, it is not the only code in Mambo that is not GPL2 and given that its based on TinyMCE it is required to use LGPL, so that argument doesn't hold up.

I reiterate, nobody is taking credit away from you for your work Chad. It is unfortunate that users may be confused by the name, but MOS has long been associated with Mambo (coming from "Mambo Open Source") and this has been the name of Mambo's default editor since the beginning of 2006. History cannot be rewritten.

This is a really interesting thread now though.
Is Daan now calling Mark a liar? Mark told the truth about that thread. I love the way so much power is ascribed to me. Do you folk not understand how open source works? I guess not. Al is so far off the planet it would be laughable if not so sad (and delusional). 

Keep it up boys. Your contempt for women in open source and disrespect for the contributions of others will be very illuminating to anyone looking for a professional CMS solution. Somehow, I don't think anyone would blame Mambo for keeping this type of thing off the Mambo forums.

Lynne,

Keep me out off here.

I did not call Mark a liar. Simply I said. I understand that he closed the thread and that he is not acting on your call. Also I said that I respect him, that he works for Mambo and Mia.

Your really want to make people look bad and then say that there are the cause off this all. You’re the one that makes up stories to look better. For me is the Case Closed. !!!!!!!

Edit:
@ Mark if you have questions of your own about my reply. You can always contact me. So as I all ready said it is positive mend and absolutely not negative.

Last edited by Superdaantje (2008-10-03 10:20:10)